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January 30, 2023 Study Session...
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: I'm going to call the PCC Governing Board
study session in session.
>> DR. LEE LAMBERT: Good afternoon, everyone. Madam Chair, we
have first up the presentation on our financial structure and budget
overview by Dr. Dave Bea.
Dave?
>> DR. DAVID BEA: Chairperson Riel, members of the board,
Chancellor Lambert, colleagues and guests. It's my pleasure to sort
of give you an outline of the budget, the budget process, financial
structure of the college, sort of as a follow-up to the earlier
orientation that we had, but also to set the stage for how the budget
is going to come together for fiscal year '24 in the next few months.
That's really what the purpose of the discussion is today.
Importantly, this is an introduction. It is okay if you don't
absorb everything. There is going to be a much more in-depth study
session in February which then leads into when some really important
decisions start to happen in March. But it happens soon, which is
why I'm here talking to you tonight.
Okay. The college's budget is comprised of revenues and
expenditures. We are essentially a nonprofit government entity. You
think about our revenues and expenses have to match. That is
basically how the structure works.
We will talk more about how the state forms and how the formality
works, but the basic first takeaway is you try and make sure that
your expenditures are in line with the revenues that you expect to
get.
We are a nonprofit entity. We follow GASB reporting standards,
which means we do fund-base accounting. Might be a little bit
confusing from a for-profit standpoint. But basically what that is
is you have different fund pockets that you will that are tied to the
revenues that you get and the expenses then become aligned with those
revenues that you get.
Let me back it up and explain it from the standpoint of the
easiest one from that standpoint to think of is restricted fund,
funds that are restricted for purpose, whether it's the federal
government is our biggest one that gives money specifically for
financial aid. It can only be used for financial aid. It stays in
that fund; it gets expensed out of that fund.
The primary funds are the general fund, designated fund,
restricted fund, capital fund, debt service fund. I feel like I'm
missing one. And auxiliary funds. In terms of the ones that are
really important, general fund, designated fund, restricted are the
ones that really to pay attention to. Capital would be right after
that.
Auxiliary fund for us is services and expenses and revenues that
we get, and it's called auxiliary because they are proximal to what
the college's mission is, but they aren't at the center of the
college's mission.
So if you have gate receipts from athletics, it would be
auxiliary revenue. If you had dorms, dorm revenue would be
considered auxiliary. Books, for us, it's bookstore revenue, revenue
that we get as a commission from our bookstore contract.
I'm going to just go through these real quick. This is just a
headline of what's coming. We are going to talk today a little bit
about, more about expenditure limitation, because we touched on it
earlier. Budget management, stewardship. And then the process we
use to develop the budget. Because it doesn't happen at once. It
happens through a series of conversations and a series of decisions
that primarily happen in the spring.
Okay. The No. 1 most important takeaway is the budget sets the
maximum amount the college is allowed to spend. Just the top line.
Really take away one thing from today. The most important thing is
that when the college develops the budget, and we go out to the
taxpayers and we go out to the community, we are saying here is the
absolute most we can spend. We cannot go above that. Legally we are
bound to not go above that.
Why it's important is because there are projections built into
that. We have to plan for contingencies, have to plan for, well,
what if enrollment grows and you have to add classes like we were
talking about earlier. So we have reserves that are put in that we
would only spend on the occasion of enrollment ticked up or we had a
crisis of some sort.
But it's why, if you look at the budget and the budget is in the
neighborhood of I think it's $360 million this year, and then you
looked at your financial statement from last year and you go, there
is a big difference between what you actually spent and what the
budget is, and that's because you have the capacity to do things in a
given year that you may not in any given year but you need to be able
to if something comes through.
That was particularly important when COVID happened and the
federal support was coming in. We didn't know how much we were going
to get in, but we had to be able to, we had to sort of beg the
ability to spend the money, so that if the federal aid came in we
would be able to spend it.
So that's why there is extra capacity versus the actual -- what
you'd say, okay, you hold my arm behind my back and you say, how much
are we going to spend this next year, and it will be much closer to
what's in the financial statement than what's in the budget.
However, in the budget it's like this is the plan, this is what our
priorities are, and we set some of these things like, for example,
the capital fund, which funds like a building, we might put money in
the capital budget to pay for construction, even though it takes some
time for the actual expenses to happen, we want to have that money up
front if it happens a little faster than we are expecting so we don't
get stuck.
The other thing that's important on this is we have certain
statutes that we have to follow. There are certain things that are
sort of burdensome processes that happen, most of this is in June, we
are required to take the information to the taxpayers, to our
community, before we take the budget to the board for adoption.
So in May, what we do is we take a preliminary budget and we say,
does this look generally okay with you? Do you support this? So we
can take this out to the taxpayers and show the taxpayers what the
budget looks like so they can then have a public hearing and then be
able to give comments if they have concerns or if they want to make
comments related to the budget.
That's part of the budget adoption process, so we have to plan
for that and it's spelled out in statute to follow a certain way. We
have a certain format that we have to fill out the budget, according
to the state statutes, et cetera.
So there are certain things that we have to do, and then there
are certain things that we do because it's the way the college does.
So let me do a comparison. When I was talking about the different
funds, I said there is the general fund and then the designated fund.
From the state's perspective, that is one and the same. They don't
care between the two. To them, it's general fund. Because what the
designated fund means is that the college has decided to, for one
reason or another, separate some things out in order to track them
differently.
It may be that the board has said, hey, we want to make sure that
the athletics is a stand-alone operation. Now, I mentioned
athletics, not to be confusing here, but I said the gate revenue was
auxiliary, but the athletic operations, maybe you want to have
separate. Or course fees that students pay that cover field trip
expenses or cover certain licenses that they need to do as part of
the class, those things we want to keep separate from the general
fund so they don't get commingled. So it's just a way to keep them
and designate them as separate.
Again, the state doesn't care. For us, we talk about a general
fund and designated fund as two separate things just so that we keep
those things separate. Cost center budgets that we do where we want
things to be self-supporting are going to be located in the
designated fund. Like course fees are supposed to be like the
expenses that you get related to course fees are supposed to be
offset by the revenues that the students pay, right? You don't want
the students paying more than what they are getting, because it's
supposed to be a direct thing.
The other piece that's important, and this is also important from
an accreditation standpoint is that we have to be able to show
evidence that our budget, our budget process, how we allocate funds,
is tied to the college's mission and the strategic priorities. So we
are often talking when we do the budget development with the board to
make, sort of show a list of here are the priorities that we're
working on this year, here's how it's aligned with the strategic
plan, so that we can then when the HLC asks for that evidence and
documentation, we're able to show here's how these things are linked.
Let's talk a little bit specifically about the budget. I
mentioned $363 million in the current year, that's the all funds
budget. That's if you put all the different things I was talking
about together, this is a slide that shows the pie of the different
revenues. So this gets at one of the questions that was asked
earlier.
As you can see, the big blue section on the right is property tax
revenue. That's our biggest single source of revenue. Then you get
grants, contracts, and financial aid. Financial aid is big, but it
doesn't really affect the college. Most of the financial aid or the
financial aid money is a pass-through to students.
It comes to the college. They apply for financial aid. It comes
to the college. It offsets the tuition they may owe. Then any
remainder that they get, whether it's a Pell Grant or whether it's a
loan, that remainder after tuition is a check that goes out to
students. So that helps defray their living expenses, book expenses,
things like that.
So that amount of money is sort of, yeah, it's there, but it's
really, has a very specific purpose. It doesn't actually help our
operations at all. It just is a flow-through. It helps because it
makes it affordable for students to come to the college. It's
critically important for that, but it doesn't offset the operating
expenses.
The next one down in terms of importance is tuition and fees.
Then you have this big piece that's called college equity. That's a
little bit confusing. College equity is when we were talking earlier
about reserves and using reserve balance, that's what college equity
is.
So we had a very large piece of the pie in the current year's
budget as that. That's because we are finishing up our revenue bonds
project, so there is money set aside that's in our fund balance
that's actually outside of even the reserve I talked about earlier.
We have money set aside for construction projects, and we have all
these construction projects that are planned that will happen over
the course of the next few years, and right now, it gets indicated
it's using college equity because we built up money and we are paying
down sort of the savings account, if you will, to pay for that.
If you look back like ten years, it would not look like this at
all. That yellow piece of the pie would be pretty small.
Then lastly, state aid and other revenue, you see unfortunately
they look fairly inconsequential, they are important but they are not
a very big part of the pie. Tuition, property taxes. When I get
into the general and designated funds, when I talk about the
operations of the college, it becomes even more apparent.
On the expense side, again, this slide is all funds, so it
includes all those big capital projects that I was talking about and
includes reserves in case there are contingencies, things like that,
that come up. So you see the blue is all the different personnel
expenses at the college. The gray are operational expenses. So
those are contractual commitments, travel expenses, other operating
expenses.
Most of those things are contractual commitments like IT
expenses, IT licenses and utilities expenses, things like that that
are not very discretionary in reality. There are things, basic
things that we need to have things go forward on an annual basis.
When I get to the general fund, I'm going to talk a little bit
more about this. Debt service, the college has revenue bonds that we
are paying down and we have a small amount of operating leases that I
mentioned at the board meeting, the last board meeting, for some
capital equipment that we may or may not be thinking about paying
down those leases. It's a small amount of leases, but we do have a
little bit of debt outside of the revenue bonds.
I talked about the fund types already. This is the combination,
if you look at what you would generally consider our operating
budget. This is the budget that when we are going to talk in the
next few months about putting together the budget, at least 90% of it
is going to be talking about this. This is what the general
education expenses are, the personnel expenses, most people at the
college. And then again, like these operating expenses, the
contractual commitments that I talked about.
Looking at these pies, you see that then you get to the point
where it's tuition and fees and property tax. College equity shows
up here. Again, if you look 10 years ago, this also would be small.
That's because it's using college equity, some of those reserves that
at this point are not located in the capital fund, but they are
getting transferred over to the capital fund for those capital
projects. So it's in the course of this annual cycle, the money will
be transferred from the general fund to the capital fund for those
projects.
Again, normally that would be a small part of the pie in terms of
revenue. So you're basically talking about property tax, tuition and
fees, and then you see tiny bits and pieces of other things.
Investment income that we talked about earlier would be in here.
Then a little bit of state aid is considered general designated fund,
but some of that is considered restricted because there is a specific
purpose for that. It's useful for us, because it offsets normal
expenses that we have. So if it's designated for STEM and workforce
development, we have lots of STEM and workforce development expenses,
so the funding that comes in that has that restriction on it can be
used for what is normal expense for us.
On the right-hand side are the expenditures for the year.
Particularly if you take out that transfer and the reserves, if you
just pretend the green isn't there, because again, the reserves are a
lot of the time we don't even spend that money. It's set there for
contingent purposes. It's called a reserve because it hasn't been
designated for purpose. So it could be used for personnel, could be
used for an equipment purpose, could be used to offset some unknown
contingent event. But it can't be categorized with these other
categories at this point.
So it's set aside and it says -- by the way, the board does have
a contingent reserve of $3 million every year in case some unexpected
event happened. Knocking on Formica, it has not been used at any
point in the time I have been here, and hopefully that will continue
to be the case. But anyway, that's the kind of thing that we have
money set aside or the capacity to spend money if something should
arise that was a big event that we didn't plan for or didn't expect.
So there are contingent plans that are out there.
The most important thing to look at with this was if you took
out, particularly if you just took out the transfer, so let's just
make this simple, so you take out the $39 million of transfer, again,
that's stuff that's going to the capital fund, and you recast it,
what you would be looking at is operations would be about 25% of the
budget and personnel would be like 65% of the budget.
In other words, the large majority of our operating expenses are
personnel. That is not unusual. It is something, though, that you
don't want it to be too much dependent -- you don't want to get too
much of your budget to be spent on personnel, because it makes you
inflexible, and it means you don't have money that you need to spend
on other things like some of these operational things, contractual
obligations for IT system enhancements, things like that. So you
have to be careful about that personnel.
The Community College of San Francisco got into trouble because
too much of their budget was put into personnel. That means that
they were really not able to adapt to some of the changing needs that
they had and some of the things that popped up.
It's just something to track. We have metrics we track on an
annual basis. We will be sharing those with the board. So I have
under the metrics section of what I showed, there is a series of
slides that on the upper right-hand corner has arrows. Just to
acclimate you, and we will share this again with you, so don't worry,
you don't need to remember it, but the arrow logic is the arrows are
up, sideways, or down. Red, yellow, green.
The idea with it is if it's green, the college, that's a good
measure for the college. If it's yellow, it's like, yeah, it's
something we have to watch out for. And if it's red it's really not
where we want it to be. It's something we have to really watch out
for and start moving on.
The arrows are signs of what is the trend on this, so if you had
a red going down, it means that it's something that we have as a
concern, and it's getting worse.
Green going up is like this is a groovy measure. We have
examples of both. The college overall is in strong financial
position. I will show you a chart that shows you that clearer than
anything. We are in good financial position, but we have a number of
metrics that are concerns. Everything that's related to enrollment.
So we have measures that are expenditure per student or personnel per
student. All of those measures are not healthy measures, because our
enrollment has dropped so much over time, and we haven't reduced
those expenditures or those personnel lines aligned or akin to how
much the enrollment has declined.
If enrollment grows and we make some progress on those measures,
then those will start, my little personal way to say is this good or
bad, those will start to look better.
So the takeaway is that -- yes?
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: So looking at the transfers and the
reserves, that pie, that circle on the right, that's all the money we
have?
>> DR. DAVID BEA: The circle on the right are the budgeted
expenditures for the current year.
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: But that's all the money?
>> DR. DAVID BEA: No, it doesn't spend down -- no, no. We still
have reserves that are set aside.
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: So there are reserves that are not on there?
>> DR. DAVID BEA: Correct. Yes.
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: So we would consider this transfer and
reserves sort of our encumbered money?
>> DR. DAVID BEA: Yeah. That would be a good way -- operating
reserves or encumbered reserves.
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: So there is still another pot?
>> DR. DAVID BEA: Yes.
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: If it's not in the budget, it can't be spent
the next year?
>> DR. DAVID BEA: Correct. It's set aside -- yeah, right. We
have a capacity, and we can't go above --
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: So if there was an emergency, we could not
spend those reserves?
>> DR. DAVID BEA: If there was an emergency, we still have
capacity to spend probably enough to handle any emergency that
happened -- let me walk you through it.
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: So there is a difference between our budget
and our capacity?
>> DR. DAVID BEA: There is -- the budget is the capacity, those
are the same, on an annual basis. There is also other money that is
not included in the capacity document.
If there was a big contingent event, some really bad thing
happened, there would be a series of things that happened that you
would drop these expenses, you would cut some of these discretionary
expenses so that those dropped down, and then you would have plenty
of money to handle a contingent event.
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: So we would have additional cash that could
be inserted in there, but we do not increase the capacity --
>> DR. DAVID BEA: Right.
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: -- expenditure capacity?
>> DR. DAVID BEA: At a certain point you could have that happen,
but it is essentially -- it is essentially not possible. We have
enough capacity built in that it could handle any normal contingency
or abnormal contingency.
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: So what's the number for the reserves?
>> DR. DAVID BEA: You want me to -- I will shoot ahead.
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: No, that's fine.
>> DR. DAVID BEA: No, no, that's fine.
I mentioned earlier that the board has a policy that says that in
order to be a fiscally prudent, smart organization, we want to ensure
that the college has enough money on hand, reserves, and this is
-- don't think budget. Think this is in-the-bank money. The college
has enough money in the bank to be able to operate for essentially
nine months at normal operations.
So what this chart is showing you is this is our investments, so
these are like savings account, like I referenced earlier, these are
our savings accounts all added up. The colors are cash and cash
equivalents, again, that's the stuff we can get ahold of very, very
quickly.
There are short-term investments, which is not hard, and you can
liquidate them. You may just have to pay a little bit to do that.
And the longer terms are more like the three- to five-year bonds.
Short term would be more like one month -- I think it's one month
duration to like two years. Average would be around a year. So they
are maturing off like regularly.
Anyway, so this is money that we have, right? This is above
everything else, money that we essentially have in our savings
account. The red dot there is that is the reserve that we want to
make sure we keep an eye on that target. That would be worth nine
months of normal operations in a given year.
So we have enough money in the bank in savings, if no other
revenue came in -- so now let's talk about what that means in terms
of a real emergency, like something really bad happens. This is why
it's all theoretical.
Say something really bad happened. Don't even want to speculate.
Something bad. No one is paying tuition anymore, no property taxes
coming in, no money is coming in from the federal government. We are
on our own.
This would enable us, we would have enough money in our accounts,
like money available, to operate as normal for nine months. So it's
a very conservative amount of money that we have, that we keep set
aside.
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: So an example would be if we went into a
deep depression and people weren't paying their property taxes, we
would have enough cash to make up the difference?
>> DR. DAVID BEA: To keep operating for a long time. Yes. Yes,
that's exactly the takeaway.
So that's one component of it, but again, that sort of is on the
side of the budget. That's operations and financial management.
>> DR. LEE LAMBERT: Dave, will you talk a little bit about the
significance of why you have that 75% reserve beyond what you said,
because the legislature also looks at what we have in the bank.
Right. Can you talk about...
>> DR. DAVID BEA: Yeah, so there are two other --
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: The next question would be can they sweep
it?
>> DR. DAVID BEA: Great question. Boy, this is going off
-- this is not so much related to the budget, but these are great
financial questions. Okay. (Laughter.)
So I will start with -- so the statute says that for a college to
be, I can't remember exactly how it's said, but it basically says
that in order to be a college you have to be able to operate for nine
months. That's what Lee is referencing.
We also use that as a good measure, because there are other
components that if we have something that keeps a good reserve on
hand, it has other effects that are really critical. The HLC looks
at our financial ratios, and if you don't have money in reserves of a
decent type, the HLC will start questioning whether you actually have
the ability to properly operate.
On top of that, credit agencies look at that. We get credit
ratings, Moody's and Fitch's, for example, provide our regularly due
credit ratings at the college because of our revenue bonds, so they
look at that. And if you don't have a good amount of money on hand
in reserves and you don't have good policies to maintain reserves,
you will have a lousy credit rating, and then it's harder to borrow
money, et cetera. So you get into trouble multiple ways, right?
You potentially could get in trouble with the state legislature,
you would get in trouble with the HLC, you'd have to show how are you
going to get back to being financially responsible, and then you also
then couldn't borrow money, at least you couldn't borrow it at any
reasonable rate because you'd be kind of in chunk status. So that
one measure sort of ensures that the college is in good standing with
all of those key measures.
The other thing that it does is it helps us make sure that we go,
once we get above that threshold, so you notice that we are above
that dotted line, that dot, what that is saying is, okay, board,
let's think about how do we take those reserves and reinvest them
back into the college so that we don't have to increase tuition to
build a new building or we don't have to do X, Y, or Z. Let's spend
down some of this savings we have but not too much, right? Let's
keep it at a really responsible place but know that we have some
money set aside that would enable us to do that.
So we have a couple of capital projects. Remember the equity
piece of pie is pretty big, right? So building the center of
excellence for health and doing some other capital upgrades that we
are doing are all coming out of that part of the reserves section.
Now, if we finish the year in a positive way, it's just going to
add more money to that so it will offset that. So it's a flow that
happens multiple years running that you just keep track, and that's
why it's good to see it, how has this grown over time.
To look back where it was dipping down there, down there, that
was when the college did two things. We built the building at
Northwest, the science building, so we cash-funded that building. We
paid for it out of our reserves.
We also did a couple of renovations. One at West Campus, there
was a sports facility, the FSS, I think that area, we did a
renovation there, and then we paid down the outstanding debt that we
had. We had a lease purchase obligation with the cooperative that
was related to Northwest Campus, and we paid off that lease.
So we basically temporarily deficit spent, spent down the net on
a couple of years. That's why it sort of dips down. And then since
then we are back into better healthy operations. But that was a
plan. That wasn't a mistake that that happened.
>> DR. LEE LAMBERT: Can I just make two points about this, going
back to the sweeping. This helps with the sweeping issue, because we
can show that we do have a use for that account, that we have
evidence that we have used it for other purposes. So that's point
No. 1.
Point No. 2 is this is one-time money. So once it's spent, it's
spent. So it's tempting to think, oh, we will use that for ongoing
operational purposes, but in reality it's not really going to buy you
that long-term operational commitment, so just being mindful about
that.
>> DR. DAVID BEA: And then to get to the question about can the
state sweep it, I think that's probably a legal question, but back
then, so back in fiscal year '09 is when the budget started getting
reduced by the state. That's when they started cutting us severely.
There were definitely discussions that we were hearing that they were
looking at the reserves that different colleges had.
I don't think it would resort to that, and actually I think that
there is a legal challenge because we are legally separate. However,
that's where we are getting to what Chancellor Lambert just
mentioned, having a responsible plan, showing that we are obligating
some of those for future capital projects which we do in the state
budget forms. We have it reserved. There is sort of a line that is
shown that says for future capital needs, or we have a line that's
not, so it's not in the budget. It's outside of the budget. But
it's a line that basically says, but we are planning to spend it, so
don't think you can come get it.
I don't think (knocking on wood) -- I think it would be a legal
challenge, but on the other hand, I wouldn't want to test it. Now,
what they did do is they knew those reserves existed. They knew
Maricopa had a very large reserve. So when they cut the funding that
went to Maricopa and Pima, that was definitely in their mindset, like
it was pretty clear to me that they knew that Maricopa and Pima,
Maricopa in particular, had some reserves on hand.
I think they realized they couldn't just grab it because they
were talking about doing that with K12s, so then they did the
next-best thing, which is, okay, we are not going to provide any
operating funding for you, so you'll have to eat it, basically, eat
it over time.
Hopefully that makes sense. Okay. That's a really good point,
though, Lee, thanks for that.
So back to this. So again, the big takeaway today is a large
proportion of our operating budget is personnel. On an ongoing
basis, that is also when personnel expects annual increases, and with
our most recent class comp adjustment, there is a key element that
we're going to have to talk about in the budget, is to align the
class comp structure to market, the way it's set up is it assumes
that people will be at the midpoint of what their market basis
comparison position is after an average number of eight years. So
eight years of experience in a position, you should be at market
average, is essentially what that's saying.
That kind of makes sense, it's sort of intuitive. Well, if
someone is hired in and they are hired in at the minimum of the
grade, they are below that eight-year point. What we have built in
now is a class comp structure that for every year of experience up
to, at this point we have caps at step 12, people will move up in the
scale.
So it's sort of a built-in obligation to move people up based on
their years of experience and additional value that they now have.
They're more experienced. They know their jobs better. They are
more valuable to the college. That ongoing obligation is probably in
the neighborhood of $5 million a year.
So we now have to figure out how to sustain that from a revenue
standpoint to the tune of about $5 million. Again, I'm going to keep
it simple. In February we are going to get into the numbers, but I
want to give you, okay, let's think this through.
Now, looking on our left-hand side, we have about $5 million just
on personnel that we at least want to be able to do every year. On
the left-hand side, okay, what revenues are going to sustain that $5
million, year-over-year changes.
Property tax, the way it works, is it's sort of a combination of
two-plus things. The first thing is if there is growth in new
property in Pima County, you get all of the tax dollars from that new
property. So I always like to think of it as picture a street that
has four houses on it and someone builds a fifth house. As soon as
that fifth house is built, now those people pay to us. Whereas for
those four existing houses, the way it works for them is year over
year, if the board doesn't go through a truth-in-taxation process,
their taxes year over year stay flat.
The board has the ability to increase the tax levy by 2% a year.
So say that example that I just talked about, say that value of the
house they are paying $200 a year, what that means is for that 200,
for that house that existed, for those four existing houses, if the
board approves that 2% tax levy increase, that means that they are
paying 2% more than they were the year before, all other things being
equal. There are other variables, but all other things being equal.
So that increases it from $200 plus 2% so that's plus $4. So
it's $204 for their tax bill. The new house now is paying $200. The
old house is going from $200 to $204. So it's a small increase for
the existing properties, a big change for the new but it's new,
right?
So the college gets all of that new growth money. We have to
project it. We will get that number in a matter of weeks. That
number is probably in the neighborhood of $1.5 million.
So the board doesn't have to do anything. The college doesn't
have to do anything. That's just for our serving a bigger population
of people, essentially population in terms of properties.
So think in terms of this. So I said $5 million on the
right-hand side. On the left-hand side we have about a million and a
half. Then between the growth of 207 money, which is the money
coming in from the Smart & Safe Arizona, legalized marijuana money
and the growth in investment earnings, think that's probably a
million and a half growth year over year for those two things. So
between those two things, property tax growth and then the 207 money
and investment earnings, plus 3 million.
So left-hand side, easy to say, $3 million. Right-hand side,
negative 5 million. So we will have the conversation about how do we
approach that? Because the answer is do we look at a tuition
increase? The board can increase the levy by 2% a year, and it can
go all the way up to what's called the levy maximum. The levy
maximum is what you started plus 2% every year. So if you don't do
2% every year, you still retain the ability to go all the way to that
point.
We have reserve money in the levy max, and so last year we
increased the levy by 4%. We have another 4% this coming year. We
have additional tax capacity that we can tap into. So we will talk
more again. I don't want to overwhelm you. We will talk more about
that in February what that means and what that would look like.
I don't want to freak you out, okay, we have new commitments or
ongoing commitments of at least $5 million and you're telling me we
only have $3 million, why did I get on this board? No, there are
answers and solutions to that. That's sort of a good starting point
to at least kind of noodle in your head a little bit.
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: So back to the 75% cap, whatever you called
that, you know, the each of those bars is $20 million, and we are
currently well over that 75% mark. So, I mean, we don't necessarily
have to balance that on a tuition increase? There are other options?
>> DR. DAVID BEA: That gets to what Lee was saying. What you
want to ensure is that you create a budget that has sustained the
revenues, normal operating revenues that you get are offsetting the
normal operating expenses.
What happens, yes, you theoretically can do what you are doing,
but what you're doing is deficit spending and taking what Lee was
referring to as one-time money and you're basically obligating that
into the future, and it's not a strong, solid, smart financial
-- it's not sustainable.
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: But there are other things the college
could do, too, right? We could look at some of those expenses we
currently have and decide where we could trim off maybe nonessentials
and monies that don't actually help impact education in the best way?
>> DR. DAVID BEA: Yeah, so reducing expenses is the other way to
stay within the means, yes. That will be part of the conversation.
A lot of what the college is trying to really focus on
historically is reallocating resources. So as you identify that you
need more money in one area, what do we need -- what can we do less
of? What do we not need to do as much so we can shift those
resources over, and continuing to do that as a college is a good way
to also -- that doesn't net to zero, but it's how you start doing
things, how you do things differently or new things, new initiatives,
without totally adding is the reallocating the currently existing
money.
>> MR. GREG TAYLOR: I have a question. Forgive me if I
misunderstood you. I will start with clarifying.
You said during the period of enrollment declines, the college
hasn't really done anything to reduce personnel or at least not
proportionately. Did I understand that correctly?
>> DR. DAVID BEA: I said not commensurate to. We have, yes. We
actually went through a period of time pre-COVID that we actually
went through, because of expenditure limitation which is coming,
sadly, sorry, because of expenditure limitation, we were in a
position where we absolutely had to reduce expenses.
We did reduce expenditures very significantly and effectively for
the period of three years. We had a three-year plan and reduced more
than 200 positions over that period of time.
But when I was saying the reductions that I was just talking
about, so since COVID, the enrollment dropped dramatically, and we
didn't turn around and lay people off. We maintained the staffing
resources at a flat level. That's really what I was saying.
So we have done it in the past where we reduced over time but not
consistent and not in the same proportions as the enrollment declines
have happened.
>> MR. GREG TAYLOR: So as part of this budgeting into the
future, are you looking at, given where the enrollment is now, or
maybe projecting enrollment, would be great if it went up, but like
at some point there is like a right-sizing, right, where it's like
this is the amount of students we actually have and what do we need
to serve them? Is that happening?
>> DR. DAVID BEA: Yeah. Go ahead, Lee.
>> DR. LEE LAMBERT: We are developing a three-year plan. That's
kind of to what your point is for that purpose. Because I want to
separate out the expenditure limit from just running an effective
operation based on what you're there to do.
So if we have less students, obviously we don't need what we
currently have to service them. Even though we may have the revenue
to do that, is that good operational practice to do that?
Now, I will use an example from the past here. So when I first
came onboard, one of the questions I asked the HLC is why has Pima
been struggling for so long with accreditation? Well, one of the
issues they pointed out to me was you're accredited as a single
college; however, you have been operating as if you were six separate
colleges. And because of that siloing effect, you're having
problems. Because we look at you as one. We are looking for
standard systems and processes. But you have six different ones.
So when you take that into account, in our earlier three-year
plan as well as some other things before that, as you saw, we went
from six college campus presidents down to one. We used to have VPs
at each campus. We reduced that down significantly, as well as
deans. So I think keeping the two things separate. Yes, we may have
the revenue, but is that the best way to use it when your operations
doesn't require it.
So we are constantly keeping that in mind.
>> DR. DAVID BEA: I know we are getting to the end of my time
here, so we talked about expenditure limitation earlier. We will
talk about it more. It isn't our most pervasive problem. It is
something you're going to be hearing about, because it is other
colleges' biggest problem.
Because of Prop 481 we have a good amount of capacity now to work
through our issue now, whereas a few years ago it drove us. We did
not have a choice. We had to reduce over the course of time to hit
where we knew we were going to be with expenditure limitation.
Now the issue is let's right-size the college. Let's align us
properly to the size that is sufficient to provide really strong
educational service to the community but is also responsible and that
we would be good stewards of public funds that way. That's what the
right-sizing is going to be.
That's why, if you have seen in some of the earlier presentations
talking about staffing ratios, it's not, again, and I said this
earlier, it's not that we are saying thou shalt be 102 positions. It
is, okay, when we are at 200 and it's kind of saying, the measure is
saying we should be closer to 100, let's move ourselves closer to the
100. That's how we have been approaching it.
That's what we will be talking about with the development of the
three-year plan in the coming months and getting direction and
guidance from the board on that as well.
>> DR. LEE LAMBERT: To that point, this is why we need your
input. If you're telling us, no, go ahead and keep spending at that
level and don't reduce your current staffing, we need to know that.
But if you're like, no, I think you need to make sure that you're
running efficiently to the actual students you're in service to,
well, that's a different conversation. That's a tough conversation,
because that means you are right-sizing. But we need to know how you
feel about all of that, because that affects our planning work
internally.
>> DR. DAVID BEA: This slide, and I'm not going to talk much
about this, other than this is sort of a very simple way to think
about expenditure limitation. Expenditure limitation, it's sort of
like you have the budget, you have revenues and expense. That's
reality. That's how we live our normal lives. Then you add this
expenditure limitation, which is sort of this overarching lens that
you also have to make sure you fall within those rules.
Again, it's not our biggest problem. It is something that we
will be talking a lot about, and Lee and I will be helping at the
state level to make sure that the other colleges in their response to
address their expenditure limitation problems, that we guide them so
that it doesn't have an adverse effect on Pima.
Again, what 481 did was a huge benefit in terms of providing the
capacity we need to properly manage this college. Others are sort of
going, okay, now we are in the same position that Pima was in four
years ago. Again, that's a lot of because of the COVID enrollment
declines, that sudden drop, had a pretty big effect.
Just so that I can say one thing about this is if you see on the
right-hand side, tuition and fees are outside, remember that earlier
I said the purpose of expenditure limitation is to control taxes.
Expenditure limitation doesn't care if you charge private school
tuition to our students. What would happen is we would have an
expenditure limit, but if we funded it completely out of a gigantic
tuition charge, we would not have an EL problem. We'd have a limit,
but we would have zero dollars expensed against it because the
tuition would fund everything at the college.
It's a little bit quirky, but the idea is remember it's about
controlling taxes. Again, big takeaway, it's about controlling taxes
and the growth in property taxes.
I talked about this earlier, so I think I can go through this
relatively quickly. We have parameters and board policies that
govern how we manage and that we are prudent stewards of public
funds, that we are responsible in terms of how we budget, and that we
have good reserve structures in place. Again, not only to make sure
that we have healthy reserves like we talked about but also that we
have money readily available if a crisis happened tomorrow.
We would have cash available if we needed it, but then it's also
prudent for us to make sure that we are also taking advantage of the
money that we have on hand and investing it wisely.
So that's what that 4.07 is about that, making sure you have a
reserve and then sort of dictating that you invest it as wisely as we
can.
I think that gets through the key things. So timeline, I
mentioned earlier, March is going to be critical because -- and we
will have a study session in February. March is critical because
that's when we set tuition rates for next year.
We do that in March, because the class schedules open for people
to enroll for fall soon after that March meeting. The purpose is we
want to have the tuition set. We are not required to set it that
early. We set it that early so that we don't change tuition on
students and have to say, yeah, you enrolled early, we charged you X,
and now we have to charge you X + 5.
So the idea is set tuition as early, at that March meeting. We
will talk about taxes at the same time, because again, that's how it
fits into the whole how do you balance these things.
Then as I mentioned earlier, we will be setting the benefit plan
structures. The good news is there shouldn't be any dramatic changes
for benefit plan structures this coming year. There is a little bit
of cost increase that we know about for a medical plan, but it's not
anything the college can't absorb sort of within the budget. I will
talk more closely about that.
As I mentioned earlier, May is when we give the preliminary
budget. We talk about specific capital projects we would like to do
going forward and get the approval from the board to go out to the
taxpayers, and then we put notices in the newspaper, and then have
the public meeting in June and formally adopt the budget for next
year in June.
Okay. I got through a lot. I know there was a lot. Don't feel
like you needed to memorize or hear all of it. I think I hammered
home the things I really want you to take away. We will be talking
in February at the study session more clearly about some specific
numbers.
With that, I will ask if the board has any more questions for me.
>> MR. GREG TAYLOR: I just have a timeline-related -- related to
that timeline, you said, Chancellor, you were just saying a minute
ago you needed some direction from us in terms of that strategic
approach. Like when along this timeline do you need us to have that
conversation so that you can put together or your team can put
together whatever you need?
>> DR. LEE LAMBERT: If you go back to our discussion during the
retreat, we talked about priorities. If I recall correctly, I talked
about there is three things that the board must absolutely do. One
is the overarching accreditation oversight, and the other one was
this. And then the third one being the board's monitoring piece.
Why I said that was we are going to have these discussions in
study sessions between now and then, and it's in those study sessions
where we get that insight from you. So the question is only do you
want that at every study session that we are talking about these
different points along the way, or are you comfortable, we can wait
till the February study session to talk about tuition, and then we
will skip the April study session and then come back and pick it up
after May or whatever, how you want to do it, right.
But I would suggest that every study session we talk about this,
especially since this all new, in terms of how we do things, and that
way we know all along the way where you're thinking, and then you get
a sense from us how we might suggest different options.
But that's going to take up time and bandwidth that takes away
from maybe addressing some other things you may have an interest in.
But it's up to you.
>> DR. DAVID BEA: Any other questions?
Well, thank you for your patience today. It's been a lot of
stuff thrown at you. I will look forward to continuing conversations
in coming months. Thanks.
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: Thank you, David.
>> DR. LEE LAMBERT: I'd like to invite Libby Howell up with
Joseph, and we are going to talk about our upcoming trip to
Washington, D.C., and so we want to prepare you on the issues that
are likely to be discussed and that we are going to discuss with the
members, as well as some logistics so you kind of have a sense of
what to expect from that perspective.
With that, I will turn it over to you, Libby.
>> LIBBY HOWELL: Good afternoon. I'm Libby Howell. I'm the
executive director of media community and government relations for
the college.
This is my colleague, Joseph Mais. Joseph is somewhat new to the
college, he started in October, but he has lots of experience in
government relations. He's a member of the Arizona Bar, he's a
former school teacher, and he worked in Washington, D.C.,
extensively. He worked for the Obama Administration, for Congressman
Grijalva, and for the Department of Ed.
So you'll be hearing a lot from him, because he's going to be
your fearless leader on this trip because of his extensive experience
in Washington.
So I'm going to give you a little bit of the overview of what the
trip is about, and then I'll turn it over to Joseph. And, yes, we
have given you homework. (Laughter.)
This trip is interesting from a bunch of different directions.
It is a conference. There are wonderful sessions that are sponsored
as part of the conference, educational sessions helping you to be
better board members to tell you what's going on in the Washington
scene.
I really encourage you to attend those functions. There will be
luncheons and dinners and all the stuff that you expect at a
convention.
It also is the National Congressional Summit for Community
Colleges. For that, ACCT works in partnership with AACC. So the
Association of Community College Trustees is your trade organization,
if you will. It's specifically directed to governing board members
and how to help them do their job better and to give them the kind of
information that they need.
The American Association of Community Colleges are the colleges'
trade organization. Those two organizations work closely together.
They both have large lobbying staffs. So we try to, you know,
coordinate what we are interested in. We give them feedback about
what our issues are. They tell us what's possible.
They work very closely with our own, Pima's own federal lobbyist,
whom I believe Board Member Gonzales has met before, but you'll get
to meet Tracy Tucker when you get there. She really is a fine, fine
lobbyist for the college. Excellent reputation on the Hill. Very
knowledgeable.
They have a consultant that they work with who is a former
Department of Ed expert. She brings a lot to the plate. She and
Joseph will be helping guide you through our meetings with the
members on the Hill.
Our purpose in doing this visit is to position Pima as a thought
leader on the national scene in terms of community colleges, and also
to keep our members of congress informed on what's going on here.
For example, you know, a lot of people, a lot of the elected
officials in congress don't realize that shrinking enrollments at the
college level is a national issue because of the declining birth
rate. They may not realize that here in Pima County we have a
declining high school graduation rate which affects the community
college.
So this is a good opportunity for us to bring those issues to
them, but it's also a good opportunity to brag, if you will, about
our solutions, to talk about the dynamic programs that are going on
here at the college, and to help them understand how those pieces of
legislation that they might be discussing could impact us here on the
ground.
The other kind of fun thing about this trip is we always bring
students. As much as I'd like to think that Joseph and I have an
important voice, I'm here to tell you, all they care about is talking
to the students. They want to know their stories. They want to hear
about their struggles. They want to hear about what works for them,
what hasn't worked. Because it keeps what we do real to them. We
have three really fine students who are going this year. Joseph will
tell you more about that.
So we have put together a booklet for you that will give you
information. Joseph is going to tell you about that. The one
section I really want to emphasize that you take a look at is the one
I marked with asterisks about our talking points. That gives you
kind of in-the-weeds information that might be helpful to you.
The other thing I want to mention before I turn it over to Joseph
is some of these meetings will take place with members of congress,
and some of them will take place with their staff.
Please don't be disappointed if you're talking to a staff member,
because, I'm sorry, they make the world go round. They are the folks
who really continually can keep us in touch with our elected official
and can be so helpful to us.
Some of the meetings we may need to divide because some of the
offices are pretty small. We have a large delegation this year. We
will make sure that one group has Tracy, one group has Joseph, so
that you never feel like you have been left to the wolves.
Is there anything else I should mention about the kind of
overview of the...
>> DR. LEE LAMBERT: So let me add this. So there is always
going to be a time restriction on any of the meetings that we have.
There is always more issues than the time allots. So we usually will
focus on probably two to three issues and then speak to them
accordingly.
Because you will hear about a lot of different issues and needs
across the country. But we want to use the students' voice to
emphasize some key pieces. Usually Pell is one of those. TRiO
Program funding is another one of those. Those are examples.
As Libby pointed out, those student voices carry a lot of weight
with our lawmakers here in Southern Arizona, especially.
>> LIBBY HOWELL: The one other thing I will mention, at the
beginning of that talking points document, I mention what we should
thank them for. We have been incredibly lucky in the support that we
have received from our congressional delegation. We have now gotten
our second federal appropriation. That brings it to like about $2.5
million that we have gotten through that.
Senator Sinema asked us to participate in a field hearing that
she had about the aviation industry, and Pima was the only
maintenance and repair training facility that she invited to
participate in that. Greg Wilson was the person who was the person
who actually did that. There have been a lot of ways that they have
supported us.
Senator Kelly has introduced a bill that will provide grants for
aviation. It's just really important that when you are in there that
you wax ecstatic and let them know what we are so grateful for.
With that, I will turn it over to Joseph.
>> JOSEPH MAIS: Thank you. Chair Riel, members of the board,
I'm Joseph Mais, as Libby introduced me. I'm going on the trip with
you.
I had sort of three things I wanted to touch on here. One was to
sort of give you an introduction to the students who are joining us,
just tell you a little bit about them and why we picked them.
And then I want to walk you through a little bit of this binder,
things to focus on, and then sort of capstone many of the things that
have been said already that are sort of big things we should keep in
mind while we are on the trip.
Talking about some of the students, the three students, we have
three really talented Pima Community College students who are joining
us. They all bring sort of a very unique perspective of what Pima
offers. I think one of the main goals here, right, is to focus on
the federal support that the college receives to help students like
them succeed. That's a big part of the message we want to bring.
So the first student, her name is Melissa Ortiz, and she's a
mother of three who came back to college after several years away
raising her family. She thought she wanted to get some programming
skills. She thought she'd make herself more marketable. Along the
way she discovered a passion and a talent for cybersecurity. She's
currently working on her networking and cyber AAS here at Pima.
Thanks to an his STEM Grant, Melissa happens to be an employee of
PCC as well. She serves as a data center specialist and has also
been working to promote Hispanic and Latino cyber and technology
community to achieve greater representation and helped to found the
Tucson chapter of Raices Cyber, which is sort of an organization that
does that to bring cyber awareness and technology to Latino and
Hispanic community around the country. So the Tucson chapter is
thanks to her work.
The second student is Angelo Thomas, and he's an HVAC student in
building and construction technologies here. He's a veteran. He's a
recipient of the Metallica scholarship, which is a pretty cool thing
Pima has been part of.
He's very well spoken, a really smart guy, very dynamic, and he's
told us that after he completes his work here at Pima he's planning
to go on to NAU to do a degree in construction management in which he
wants to learn sort of management skills and bring that business back
to Tucson to do some sustainable HVAC work which doesn't -- it's sort
of new technologies that he wants to sort of train people and start a
business here, which is pretty great.
Our third student is Erica Monreal, who is completing her first
year at PCC. She's a low-income student who currently works at
Amazon to support herself. Her family is all in Mexico, and so she
is living with an uncle and supporting herself here. She's also a
TRiO Grant recipient, which is another important federal program.
She's also incredibly motivated, ambitious, really dynamic and fun to
listen to. She plans to go to law school and become an attorney and
she's very motivated.
All three of these students are very different but bring
something really, really exciting to the table.
>> LIBBY HOWELL: If I could just interject, so we have I think
all three of them are first-generation college students. We have a
TRiO student, we have a veteran. One is that stereotypical age for a
college student, fresh out of high school, and then the other two are
a little older. We really do have a nice, diverse group.
>> JOSEPH MAIS: Yes, so those are our students who really put a
face and a voice behind some of the things we do here at Pima and to
sort of bring credit to the great work we are doing.
I want to walk you through some of the material that's here.
>> DR. LEE LAMBERT: Let me just pause for a moment, Joseph.
Not every college will be bringing students. Pima is arguably
one of the exceptions, not the rule. We have that to be proud of.
You'll see other districts, but we have been consistent about
involving students in the process.
Some of our students, this may be the first time on an airplane.
I'm not sure if that's the case with these, but we have had students
in the past who have never been on a plane, and for many never
certainly been to Washington, D.C. This is a big deal for many of
them.
>> JOSEPH MAIS: Thanks, yes. They are very excited. We did a
sort of Zoom call I did with them, and they're really excited about
this trip. That will be great.
So just walking through the tabs sort of on the right here, just
to give you a quick synopsis of things, at the beginning we put the
itinerary as it currently stands. Tracy Tucker is in the process of
setting up meetings, which is herding cats in D.C. is a hard process
to do. Elected officials, especially now, sort of a new term of
congress, they have only been there a few weeks, and they are still
getting used to the rhythm of the new term, when are the hearing
schedules, when are things going to happen.
They are reluctant to set up meetings far in advance. Tracy told
us that the offices have all sort of committed to this week to giving
her a time when they can solidify things.
So this obviously will be getting updated as we go.
>> LIBBY HOWELL: But don't be surprised if we have last-minute
changes. As something happens they have to be on the floor to vote,
or, you know, a sudden committee comes up, because that happens all
the time. Of course we try to rearrange the schedule so that we can
still do it.
>> JOSEPH MAIS: Right. As Libby mentioned, occasionally we will
have simultaneous meetings and we can manage that as they come up.
So that is sort of -- you will see there is a lot of the things
that are on the ACCT website.
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: Could you be a little more specific, keep it
simple for me? What meetings do we want to be in attendance? Does
it start with Monday at 8:00?
>> JOSEPH MAIS: Yeah, a big chunk of Monday is the ACCT
conference. So Monday is sort of the biggest day for the conference
where it will be, you know, there will be breakouts for different
trustees. As Libby mentioned, some of it is sort of like helping
trustees understand sort of a universal role that they do in
different community colleges around the country, and so it's a way to
sort of put heads together and strategize a national plan or ways to
manage the work that you do.
>> DR. LEE LAMBERT: So let me add to that, because that first
day -- well, so Sunday is preconference day. So some of you, if not
all of you, are signed up for a preconference. That's self-contained
as far as the schedule goes.
Then we roll into Monday. I kind of recommend that you go to the
open general sessions, so whether it's the breakfast one, whether
it's the lunch one, et cetera, and then, I mean, there is some nice
pieces around, say, like, the 10:00 a.m., 11:30, you will get a sense
of the community college priorities, which will help contextualize
the pieces that Joseph is going to cover with you in terms of Pima.
So kind of keep that in mind. Then when you roll into the
afternoon on Monday, what you're going to see is there is these
breakout different sessions, and that's when, you know, you can
decide, does that work for you? Or do you want to go do something on
your own? You may have some flexibility there, depending on how that
plays out. This is based on what we know right now. This can change
when we get on the ground. So just being mindful of that.
Then when we roll into Tuesday, Arizona is going to have its own
special unique set of events. I think that involves breakfast,
right?
>> LIBBY HOWELL: Yes.
>> DR. LEE LAMBERT: So we will get you the details around that.
Then that's going to roll into I think all the way up till noon and
may involve lunch, as well. We will confirm that.
Now we get into the visits. Now, the visits are the primary.
All this other stuff are secondary. So if we end up, for example, on
Monday, that's the only time we can go in and see Representative
Ciscomani, then we are going on Monday morning whether they've got
something going on here or not, because the whole reason for us to be
there is to meet with the members, not for the conference. So just a
little fluidity, willingness just to be agile and adaptive based on
the schedule.
But we will keep you all informed. Andrea is joining us, as
well. We will keep you informed.
What we like to do is for all of us at the general sessions to
sit together. We all sit together, and so that way something comes
up, we can talk about it and so forth. We will have a dinner one
night together. Right now we are setting that for Sunday.
Normally we do it on Monday night, but we have to do it Sunday
because I got a phone call, I may have to return to Tucson early.
They are saying that they really need me to come back to Tucson early
but they won't tell me why at this point (smiling).
So I thought, okay, we better just set it for Sunday, because at
that dinner meeting, we go over with Tracy some of the particulars
about what we may focus on. That's why that dinner -- then after
that dinner meeting, any other dinner meetings, you're on your own if
you choose to do that. I believe they also have a dinner meeting
set, and we are paying for it. Kind of keep that in mind as far as
participating in that.
But again, we will have a better idea of the schedule once we get
on the ground. This kind of gives you a flavor for it. I don't know
if that answers your question.
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: Part of it. Do we attend the new trustee
academy on Sunday?
>> DR. LEE LAMBERT: Andrea, who is set up for preconference?
So the three of you who are new. You're all scheduled for a
preconference. Now, the question, are they all in the same one?
>> Yes.
>> DR. LEE LAMBERT: Which one is it? Starting at 10:00, new
trustee academy. Okay.
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: I don't know if you know this, Chancellor,
but Juan Ciscomani was one of my students for two or three semesters
in the early '90s. So I'm going to e-mail his office and just remind
him...(laughter).
>> LIBBY HOWELL: One thing I will tell you that is new this
year, so there is a group of the other community colleges that are
coming as a group. We are still going to make our appointments
individually. Frankly, because we don't want Pima's voice to be lost
in the crowd.
But as much as we can, we will try to participate in those group
activities, as long as it doesn't conflict with the appointments that
we have with our members.
>> JOSEPH MAIS: I think the big takeaway here with the
schedules, this is sort of a rough draft and there is still stuff
being put in place, and as we have heard from Libby and the
chancellor, we should all be prepared to be surprised at some point
during the week. (Laughter.)
If we go to the next section, we can see that this is the
document that the association provides to members. It's sort of the
national priorities of the association, the shared priorities of all
the community college trustees, and it also is in alignment with the
American Association of Community Colleges.
These are sort of their key areas that align with much of what we
do here. So this is something that we will make copies of and
provide to congressional offices, and it's stuff that will be sort
of, the stuff we are generally talking about, but we don't have to go
through this sheet with members of congress. They will receive it
and they will be hearing it. They have heard it all many times.
They will be provided with that document.
The next one, which is the one that says who we are sort of at
the top, Pima Community College, who we are, and this is after the
tab PCC facts. This is another documents that we will leave behind
in congressional offices to members and their staff.
A lot of what this document is, it's sort of like ACCT priorities
as they apply to our school. So it's some of the data around
important facts specific to Pima related to things that ACCT cares
about.
The next document, PCC federal priorities, this one is sort of
other things that are very important to Pima that may not be embraced
by the whole association, but they are things that are important to
our school, and we want to make sure that our delegation knows they
are priorities for Pima and we are bringing them to their attention.
This will also be a document that we will leave behind in
congressional offices.
>> LIBBY HOWELL: If I could add, note that we have indicated the
maximum Pell Grant award that students at Pima have received, along
with what the average award was. Because Pell is such a topic of
conversation now, you might be asked that question. So it's listed
here for your benefit.
>> JOSEPH MAIS: And Pell is always sort of a very important
thing. It's an important federal fund, and it's important for us to
make sure that we show how much it does for students' need-based aid.
So the next document is --
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: Sorry, Joseph. I should know this, but
Pell Grants are based on the students' need, correct? So the needier
they are, the higher the dollar amount that they would be awarded?
>> JOSEPH MAIS: That's right. So Pell Grants, there is a sort
of -- it's based on family income, based on family size, stuff like
that. It sort of -- there is a certain income level where you become
partially eligible, and that eligibility rate goes up until your
income is such that you are fully eligible for the full Pell, for
everybody else.
>> LIBBY HOWELL: You'll note that one of our priorities besides
expanding Pell is to get, to end the taxation of Pell Grants so that
they don't have to pay income tax on that.
We talk about it a little here and we talk about it a lot in the
talking points document, because that then gives them full access to
the financial assistance that they have received.
>> JOSEPH MAIS: That becomes a bigger complexity for community
colleges, because at a larger school where you can have a fungibility
of where, if you're going to university and your bill is $20,000 for
everything that is cost of attendance, you can sort of shift the
place where you spent your Pell into places, you know, where it won't
necessarily be taxable. But for schools like the community college,
that becomes a taxability issue.
>> DR. LEE LAMBERT: Let me just add on top of that. One of the
things you might hear is this whole notion of Promise Program. The
Promise Program is essentially another way to say it's free tuition,
and in the State of Arizona, we do offer a college Promise Program.
However, it's a Last Dollar Program, meaning you have to use your
Pell first, and then you get access to that Last Dollar Program. The
challenge for community colleges is Pell usually covers your tuition
with a little extra left over so our students don't get access to the
college Promise Program in the State of Arizona.
That's actually benefiting the university students, not community
college students. Just want you to know that.
One thing, our nuance to that is we are trying to argue it should
be a First Dollar Program, not a Last Dollar Program, because if it's
First Dollar, then it goes back to what Joseph is saying, because now
you can use Pell after you use that.
Understand that nuance being made here, this dialogue when we are
in Washington.
>> JOSEPH MAIS: Through this document there is lots of
information. I would point just to the last page of that section.
At the very bottom, there is just a paragraph there that is an
important thing that we want our delegation to know that not just
that we are doing -- we are a community college, it's educating,
workforce, it's important, but also that Pima Community College is a
reference for policymakers as an expert. So that's a point I think
we want to drive home as well.
In the next section I think Libby mentioned, this is the one, if
you're pressed for time and you only have time to review one section
of this binder, this is the one you should spend your time on, and
it's the one that says, the tab says talking points. At the top of
it, it says info and talking points for board members. This is an
internal document, so this is not something we will distribute to
congress, but this is information for you that will sort of help you,
you know, maybe expand on some of the things we will be discussing
here so that you can contextualize it for us here at Pima and how
it's working.
So some of the things we have been already talking about, about
the taxation of Pell is in here and other pieces of legislation that
are moving.
I will point you also to the last page of this document. We
found out a couple of days ago from Tracy that Virginia Foxx, who is
the new chair of the House Education Committee, is introducing this
Pell Act Bill, which is awarding money for short -- sort of for not
-- I'm struggling --
>> DR. LEE LAMBERT: So one of the pieces that community colleges
have been allocating for is being able to use Pell money for
short-term programs. Primarily those programs are career tech ed
type programs that lead to job placements, and so the majority party
now has a different view on it than the majority party last session's
view on it.
So there will be certain nuances about it that -- but we, as
community colleges and Pima specifically, we have been a proponent
for short-term Pell. But the way this new bill is laid out, there
are some issues that we have about the way it's structured. It will
be different than how the senate's version will look. Just let you
know that conceptually we liked the idea, but when you get into the
details of it we don't like so much some of the verbiage that's in
there.
>> JOSEPH MAIS: From just a quick policy sweep, right now Pell
is not eligible for those kinds of programs, and it really should be,
and that's a really important part of the workforce training that we
are providing for people who need, employers who need people quickly.
They are telling us they want these people trained in these ways.
Right now we can't use those Pell dollars to train people for
real jobs that are on the ground right in front of us. So that is
one of the weaknesses here.
I will just say that one of the problems we have with this bill
is that there is a lot tied to this availability of funds. There are
several things that we are struggling with, but one of the big things
is tied to it is a very onerous reporting requirement, some of which
we wouldn't even be able to do about, you know, placement and what
does placement mean and...
>> LIBBY HOWELL: Job --
>> JOSEPH MAIS: Income.
>> LIBBY HOWELL: Where they have gone to work afterwards.
That's really a tough nut for us to crack. It's something we are
already trying to do just so we have that kind of data, and that's
very hard to get that information.
The other thing you will see that it references...
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: What is their motivation behind this
modification?
>> JOSEPH MAIS: I would say that they probably have been hearing
for many years that community colleges are interested in this and
others are interested in these kinds of eligibility for Pell. You
know, I can't speak for the authors, but I would say that they're
putting in things that say how can we measure that it is being -- in
this document where they describe the bill, they say ways to measure
that it's actually effective, so that's the motivation they are
claiming, is that they are looking for measures of efficacy, that we
are going to dedicate new funds. We want to see that those funds are
having outcomes.
>> LIBBY HOWELL: Representative Foxx, who is the chair of this
committee, is all about accountability. That is her mantra.
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: But that's hard to argue against. So why
not the short term, is what I'm asking.
>> DR. LEE LAMBERT: Okay. So there are two facets. I will just
use these two facets. There is the for-profits, career training
programs, and so that has been a sticking point for the public sector
versus the private sector.
So in the past, that has become a barrier to passing this
legislation, because the majority party in the White House has a
different view than the majority party in the House.
So then the House, now that it's constructed differently, are
placing more of these accountability measures on all of us as a way
to probably demonstrate that this isn't just -- it's like we are
going to also require the private sector folks to step up. That's
just me reading between the lines. I could be wrong.
Then I think another piece is the universities are not so happy
about this. Because university, their business model isn't based on
CTE framework. So not based on the shorter-term certificates. So
they are concerned about this legislation, as well. Not just about
the details of the one that we have here in front of you but in the
total concept to begin with. So that's where the pushback comes from
is from the university sector primarily.
>> LIBBY HOWELL: You'll hear the term "clock hours" a lot, and
many community colleges are moving from a clock hour, in other words,
how many hours a student is in the seat, to credit hours because they
had different reporting structures, and the clock hour reporting
structure was very onerous. At least that's what our workforce folks
tell us.
So it's much easier, instead of having two systems for tracking
those and reporting on those, it's easier to just have them all be
credit hours. That's one reason, and there is a lot of emphasis on
clock hour in much of the legislation, so we want to make sure that
credit hours gets equal accessibility.
>> DR. LEE LAMBERT: Let me use a program to illustrate this for
a moment. This program also highlights why we have an issue with
this law as it currently is constructed.
Our truck driving program, commercial driver's license, CDL, you
will hear it referred to as CDL, it's a little longer term than what
this bill is contemplating, so arguably under this bill it's not
eligible.
However, it's also not eligible under the current Pell structure
because it's not a full-time program as well, because you come in, in
like eight or nine weeks, you're qualified for your CDL, you pass
your CDL, now you can go drive for Walmart or any one of those, and
then depending on who you go drive for, you are already making a
family sustainable wage.
Those students typically have to borrow to get into the program,
or hopefully they can get an employer sponsor to allow them in the
program, so why we have been pushing for short-term Pell is let's pay
for students to go through that as opposed to putting up a barrier
where they have to go borrow in order to get into a program that can
get them into a livable wage fairly quickly, but this law now doesn't
help with that.
So that's a classic example of how we have to help congress
understand those nuances, and hopefully they will recalibrate based
on it.
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: I would think that's an excellent example to
use, because, if anything, they should be pro business and want to
move the economy along.
>> DR. LEE LAMBERT: Yes.
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: We need truck drivers to do that. I would
say that's a great example.
>> DR. LEE LAMBERT: Just as an aside, a truck driver in I think
over half of the states in the country is the single largest employer
of males. So the impact is significant.
>> JOSEPH MAIS: Okay. So the other three tabs in here are just
stuff for your information. We have member bios, so the members of
congress from the Arizona delegation we are meeting with, it tells
you a little bit about them, some facts that help, I think, as --
>> LIBBY HOWELL: If I can mention, you'll notice that we have
Congressman Stanton listed. He is not a Pima County member of
congress, but he's the former mayor of Phoenix. He knows Pima and
loves us. We always like to visit him and reinforce what we are
doing, because he's very interested in the college's success.
>> JOSEPH MAIS: As the chair mentioned earlier, Juan Ciscomani,
newest member of our delegation, is a graduate of Pima Community
College, attendee.
The last two things here are just daily reporting for the fall
and spring semesters, so that's just to give you more data, more
information.
Let's see. Once again, I just had a couple of takeaways. If you
want to review anything, the talking points document is the best one
to spend some time on. That's sort of the big things, the big
takeaways. I think that will help you through.
As Libby mentioned at the top, Tracy Tucker will be joining us,
help us with our visits, help us get around, and modify our plans as
needed. She will be there to put out the fires that we have.
She is very well-respected in D.C. Finally, I just wanted to
emphasize once again the importance of our students' voices in these
meetings, the offices. The students have a huge impact on elected
officials and their staff, and hearing the on-the-ground impact that
their resources are doing and that the school is doing here at Pima
are just really valuable for members of congress. So making sure
when we have our visits we give the students the time to share their
time, and their experience there is really valuable.
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: It would be a big help for me if you would
text me as soon as you make an appointment so that we don't have to
go to a huddle to find out we changed our schedule. So if you don't
have my number, I would be happy to give it to you.
>> DR. LEE LAMBERT: Andrea will make sure we have everybody's
numbers. That way we can text each other if we need to.
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: That would be very helpful. The second is
what do we look like? Do we all go to the same appointment? Are we
doing a little quail run down the hallway and going into doors?
>> LIBBY HOWELL: Most of the time it will be a little quail run,
but in a few instances they are small offices, and we have 11 folks,
12 if you count Tracy, we have 12 people in our entourage, so we may
have to divide and conquer.
Or it could just simply be because two of the members could only
see us at exactly the same time. Then we have to split up.
I should mention, I probably don't need to say it to you folks,
but we felt we needed to say it to the students, when we do those
visits to congress, it is appropriate to be dressed professionally to
make a good impression.
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: What's that look like?
>> LIBBY HOWELL: Neckties for guys.
>> DR. LEE LAMBERT: But it doesn't have to be color-coordinated.
(Laughter.)
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: That's not business casual.
>> JOSEPH MAIS: In D.C. it might be.
>> DR. LEE LAMBERT: I'm of the mind, dress the way you feel
best. Because it's going to be not about the way you dress. It's
about the message that we are communicating. I think for us not to
lose sight of that.
The other thing, when we walk in the room, usually what happens
is, I will use a sports analogy, if that's okay, I will usually
quarterback the meeting, meaning I will call on one of you, all of
you to say a few words. I will say, Theresa, just share from your
perspective your thoughts on Pell Grants. So you'll do like a
30-second, one-minute thing. Then we will have the student talk
about their experience.
We will probably assign each of you an area, and so how we have
determined that in the past is each board member will say this is an
area of interest that I have, that I really want to talk about. So
we try to integrate that into the messaging that we want to do.
Then I will just make sure that I, you know, say to the
congressperson or the senator that, I will try to find out how much
time we have, because that affects how many of us can speak and how
quickly we have to speak, and then I will just call on each of you,
based on what we kind of have a sense of.
And then as they have said we may have to split up, because some
meetings will conflict with each other. Maybe there is time from a
schedule standpoint, but from a geography standpoint there is no way
for you to get from one part to the other part in that 30 minutes
because we have to go through the whole security check lines,
et cetera.
We will split up. So I may not always be in every meeting. If I
take one group, then Joseph will take another group. If I have to
return back here, then Joseph will take one group and Tracy will take
another group.
You never have to feel like you're on your own. We will make
sure that someone is there to help guide the process. But please,
when you look at the materials, let us know if there is a particular
topical area you have a special interest in, that way we can help
make sure that we facilitate that as part of the conversation. If
you're just completely open, that's fine too.
Usually Representative Grijalva is the most generous in time.
Just so you know that. We can go into sometimes with Senator Sinema
if she's there. Sometimes it will rush us into a room, take a bunch
of pictures, and then rush us out of the room. It can ebb and flow.
Then every now and then, and we have done this with Senator McSally,
where she came to one of our dinner meetings, and that was our
meeting with her.
So it ebbs and flows, depending on the situation. So your
flexibility, your willingness to be agile, will help a lot. But if
it conflicts with something you have scheduled out there, then just
let us know. Again, we're adaptable.
>> JOSEPH MAIS: One thing to add to that is we do have a couple
places we do these Hill receptions. That can be a really good
opportunity, because in the office we are sort of time -- it's very
time-sensitive, and we have to get through what we want to share, you
know, pretty succinctly.
When they do these little receptions, if we get a chance to do
those, and members from our delegation come, or their staff, it's an
opportunity to sort of have a conversation and get some of the stuff
you might not be able to get out quickly in that conversation.
>> DR. LEE LAMBERT: That's why Andrea is with us. She will keep
us all in line.
>> LIBBY HOWELL: Any questions? So I want to conclude by
telling you a fun story. I think it was four years ago when I went,
and we had two students that year. We are in the House office
building walking down the hall, and there is this one door quite a
bit fancier than the other doors and it has pillars to the side and
an eagle statue outside. They said, oh, my goodness, whose office is
that?
Well, it was Nancy Pelosi's, and I'll be darned, they're standing
there taking pictures when she comes out of the office and says, who
are these people? So we told her, and she stopped and posed and let
them take pictures with her.
Then we had a private tour, behind-the-scenes tour of the
Capitol. When we went into the senate, I think it was, they were
debating some bill about sanctioning, I'm not sure if it was Iraq or
Iran, but one of the Middle East countries, about sanctioning it.
We got to watch that. It's history being made. It was really
exciting. Yeah, it was cool.
>> DR. LEE LAMBERT: Madam Chair, if we can transition to the
next topic, the last topic, and this is about the board's
professional development.
We thought we'd just have a conversation so you know what the
landscape looks like for the year. This is many of the pieces that
we know about. There may be something that we don't. Really part of
the conversation is how do you want to manage all of this?
Do you want to make some decisions that everybody should go to
every one of these? Or should be a subset? We can certainly help
provide perspective on that.
So, for example, I would always suggest that we go to the ACCT
events, because that's your trade association, like we are going next
week, and they do two big meetings a year.
Then everything else I would suggest is more think as optional.
It's maybe good to go, but you don't have to go unless there is a
particular area of focus. So like this year, Board Chair, that there
is a GLI that's specific to the CEO and chair relationship. So going
to that might be beneficial for the college and for us.
Then I think because we are going to be going into the Higher
Learning Commission process here, that it probably doesn't hurt,
especially for new board members, to just go and have at least one
experience with the conference. You don't necessarily have to be
there for the whole conference, but just to go for a day or two, it's
not a bad idea, get a feel for what this whole accreditation thing is
all about.
Now, Saturday typically at the HLC event is a president's track
and that's where trustees will join the CEO on that. It's not
earth-shattering if you miss it. If you make the next day, a lot of
things get repeated. We get kind of the thumbnail on Saturday. The
conference hits you with the bigger pieces.
So what helps us to know is what you're interested in. Then you
do have a budget that's allocated for board travel. We try to keep
you within that budget. If everybody wanted to go to everything,
that could put pressure on the budget, so just let us know.
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: So Andrea will be sending us these things
along the way?
>> DR. LEE LAMBERT: Yes.
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: For me, it would be very helpful to have
input from you as to what would benefit the college on paper with HLC
so we can check the boxes that need to be checked. You know, as far
as I'm concerned, if I need to go help the college, I will go. If it
doesn't help the college, I don't need to go.
>> DR. LEE LAMBERT: That's why I come back to the ACCT pieces
are like most definitely go to that, and then this year I would just
go to the HLC, because this is your first time for the three of you,
to have been exposed to that in a board role.
Then after that, I think there is a lot of flexibility from
there, other than the GLI with the chair and CEO relationship.
Probably doesn't hurt, Wade, that you attend as the vice-chair,
because if something were to happen to Theresa, then it's good that
you're ready to step in. If you want to. I mean, it's not critical
that you go, but it doesn't hurt, either. There you go.
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: There is a lot that has been presented as
far as all of these trips. Up to this point I have said yes, because
I assumed that I wouldn't have been asked to go if it wasn't
important for the college.
But will you like put an asterisk on things that if you're
interested but we don't really -- I don't personally want to waste
any money traveling or time if it isn't something that we don't think
would really benefit us in our professional growth to go to.
>> DR. LEE LAMBERT: Sure. No, and I think we will factor that
into the equation, and if ever you're in doubt, just ask us.
Arguably, right, not everybody, after you do this one time around
on the legislative piece, you may not want to go again. I think
that's okay. If you decide, well, I have done the D.C. thing, I
don't need to go always.
But I think as long as we have at least one of you going, right?
But if no one wants to go, then I think that probably doesn't send
the right kind of message either. But I will discuss that with you,
because being the chair role, then you help to kind of work the flow
with your other colleagues.
And then there are some things that aren't on here. We have
asked you, because you're in the chair role, to join us at the
Bellwether, because that does help the college because I think it
puts on a positive face from the board to in the case chancellor, are
supportive of the programs that are up for this prestigious
recognition. That's why we invite -- now, is it absolutely that you
need to go? No. But does it help with our pitch? Absolutely.
More from a commitment level, not so much from what you might
say. We may only give you, say, a one-minute part in all of that,
but the fact that you're there communicates a message to the group as
well.
Now there is logistical issues. Do you want to talk about it or
do you want me to talk about the logistical issues about board
travel?
So you have a copy of the -- I will just repeat it, because I
know the audience can't hear it. Andrea is saying you have all
received a copy of the board policy. Helps you understand what you
can and can't be reimbursed for.
Most things you can be reimbursed for as long as you stay within
the per diem limit. If you decide to go have a nice, fancy dinner,
and for that region the state only covers $50 but you spent 100, then
you just have to pay that difference. If you're bringing along a
spouse, a partner, then typically, well, they would have to cover
their own expense.
Now, there are some limits on parking, so in Arizona, for
example, here in Tucson, we are only going to cover $5 of your
parking at the airport. Some of the lots are a little more expensive
to that.
Dave, we need to revisit -- is he still here? He's gone. I
think we need to revisit some of that because of inflation and so
forth. Right now that's how it's kind of set, but that kind of gives
you the parameters.
Now, when we go to special dinners, like when we all travel
together, I'm with you, I will take us all out one night to dinner,
and then I will cover that dinner except for the drinks. Alcohol is
on your own, but I will cover that piece of it.
We will repeat these kinds of things when we are on the road
together. Then depending on the nature of the dinner, you can bring
your spouse, your partner, except for when we say, well, this is a
working dinner, so the D.C. dinner is a working dinner, so that's
where we would not invite your partner or your spouse to that dinner.
Then there is other considerations, and I will use D.C. as
another example. For us to bring more than a certain number of
individuals, it elevates it to a whole new level of bureaucracy that
we have to go through with the restaurant. So sometimes we are like,
okay, we don't want to go through that, and so we keep the number
below the bureaucratic levels with the restaurant. That would limit,
you know, bringing a guest.
But I will always have Andrea let you know those parameters. So
you don't have to remember any of what I just said. But she will let
you know.
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: This is a question about our travel cards.
I had one before when I was an employee, but I don't ever remember
using it, and I don't ever remember like paying attention to the
bills.
Are we responsible -- I know we are responsible for what we spend
on the card, but is it one of our monthly things that we are going to
have to make sure that all of our items match to what we purchased?
>> (Off mic.)
>> DR. LEE LAMBERT: It's the smaller things that are hard to
keep track of, like if you pay for parking, take a taxicab, or Uber.
Those are the ones, those little pieces that are hard for us to
track, but everything else we are able to track for you. As Andrea
said, she will just take care of it for you.
When you go and check into the hotel, we will get that hotel bill
so you don't have to worry about that. We will take care of that on
your expense account, as long as you use the college card.
If you use a private card, then we would need you to make sure
you bring in the receipts and everything and we can cross-reference
it back to your private card.
But generally, if you use the college's card, then I would not
worry about it. Because we use a per diem system, then we are not
getting into how much did you spend for breakfast, how much did you
spend for lunch, for dinner? Because it's just per diem.
Does that cover what you'd like to say, Andrea? Okay. Madam
Chair, we are done with this piece unless you have more questions.
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: Okay. Any other comments? This meeting is
adjourned.
>> DR. LEE LAMBERT: Thank you.
(Adjournment.)
*********************************************
DISCLAIMER: THIS CART FILE WAS PRODUCED FOR COMMUNICATION
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*********************************************
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